PayPal Error #36: Transaction Failed

Simple subscription site. Customers get error #36: Transaction Failed when they attempt to pay using their PayPal account. However, when they pay using a credit card, it works fine.

In PayPal Manager, these services all have “Live” status:
PayPal Payments Pro
Hosted Checkout Pages
Payflow SDK/API (Full Access)
Recurring Billing
Paypal Express Checkout

I’ve set up the PayPal Account Details, Payflow Account Details, and so on. It all works unless they try to pay with PayPal, and it has even worked with PayPal on the rare occasion.

I ran the server check script and it’s 100%.

I’ve asked PayPal to look into some specific transactions…10 days ago and no response thus far (nudged them again today with fresh transactions), which is why I’m here.

I’ve read where other people having this problem simply de-integrate Payflow and s2Member will fall back to the older API in that case. I’m not *exactly* sure whether that is a known workaround for someone in my situation, but if it is I’m happy to try it.

Thanks!

Hi Chris.

I’ve asked PayPal to look into some specific transactions…10 days ago and no response thus far (nudged them again today with fresh transactions), which is why I’m here.

Let us know when they respond.

I’ve read where other people having this problem simply de-integrate Payflow and s2Member will fall back to the older API in that case. I’m not *exactly* sure whether that is a known workaround for someone in my situation, but if it is I’m happy to try it.

Do you have logging enabled? Would like to see the entries from all the log files, for a transaction where you got the error when trying to pay through Express Checkout.

The other time I saw that error, the log also said:

‘TRXRESPMSG’ => ‘Referral: 10422-The customer must return to PayPal to select new funding sources.’,

Please see this post: http://www.s2member.com/forums/topic/cant-do-recurring-billing-via-paypal-payflow/#post-18748

I hope that helps! :)

Yes, the 10422 referral is exactly what I’m getting.

Payment Receiving Preferences Ruled Out
When I first noticed the problem and researched it a couple week ago, I set my Payment Receiving Preferences so that Block payments sent to me in a currency I do not hold is set to No, accept them and convert them to primary currency. I just checked and it’s still set correctly, so we can rule that out.

Accepted Card Type Information — maybe?
In the post you linked to, I inferred from what Jason said that if a customer’s funding source was a checking account, but your merchant account was not accepting checks, then that could cause the problem. This seems like a good thing to check, so within PayPal Manager, I went to Processor & Merchant Bank Information/Accepted Card Type Information to find the card types my account is currently accepting:
Bankcard
Visa
Switch
Discover
PayPal Express Checkout
American Express
Solo
MasterCard

And since PayPal Express Checkout is on the list, it seems to imply that it should work, but I’m not certain.

I’m still looking for a way to explicitly “Accept Checks” if that’s the problem. Most of the customers who are getting the PayPal Error #36 I’m sure have their checking or savings account linked to PayPal and not a credit card. So that could totally explain it.

Thanks!

Ah, that may explain it! You could test this specifically, with accounts that get funding from an account and others from a card, see if you can reproduce the error consistently then. :)

Actually, the funding sources were all over the map (visa credit, mastercard credit, discover credit, debit, checking, checking primary credit secondary, etc.), so I didn’t find any common denominators there.

However, PayPal finally responded and after a bit of back and forth, this is what they told me:

That is completely understandable. I do have to apologize though, I just realized how it was that you were attempting to set up these profiles with .

With Payflow you can only set up profiles with credit card transactions. You could use the recurring options through the standard Express Checkout APIs or use the Express Checkout through Payflow to create Billing Agreements, then bill accordingly. I think the options to do it through the standard APIs would be the easiest to develop.

The profiles that have been created will fail when PayPal is used as the funding source. The profiles can be created but the way Payflow references credit cards for the recurring portion will not work with PayPal as the funding source.

So does this mean s2Member should be doing something different, or does this point back to the workaround we discussed of simply removing the Payflow API parameters and letting s2Member fall back to the older APIs? Or something else entirely?

Thanks!

So does this mean s2Member should be doing something different, or does this point back to the workaround we discussed of simply removing the Payflow API parameters and letting s2Member fall back to the older APIs? Or something else entirely?

If your PayPal Pro account uses the PayFlow API, removing the PayFlow details from s2Member will prevent your pro-form from working with PayPal Pro.

Thanks for showing us what the PayPal rep said, I’ll email Jason about this.

Any thoughts as to a solution or a workaround here?

We are postponing our launch beyond the few existing invited members waiting on this single issue at this point.

Thanks!

Wow I’ve been pulling my hair out on this one. I have the exact same set-up and issues.
Credit cards work great through PayFlow, Paypal fails like above.

I was just getting ready to send log’s when I found this post.

Jason went through his emails yesterday, but he must have missed the one I sent about this. I just emailed him again.

In the meantime, just in case he requires it to review your installation, could you send your site’s info? s2Member® » Private Contact Form

Mike, you too, please.

Thanks! :)

Sent PCF

Thanks.

I sent the PCF as well just now. Thanks!

Also, I’m trying to keep the conversation with PayPal going, and have a couple more tidbits that may prove useful to us.

Here is the first bit. I posted back to them:

Okay, but why then would *some* PayPal paying signups work successfully, even though *most*, almost all, failed as we’ve been discussing?

Here below are some Transaction IDs of successful signups who paid with PayPal. Some of these are Verified members and some Unverified.

Thanks!

3JF65226XJ2140715
64M164434P786031A
4L225709SA782431N
8RE67485D4735223T
5JG29143GT274973C
64D61333DE938272J

And then PayPal’s response:

As I said, it may charge the account before it creates the profile, but the profile will not be charged the next time around. In all other circumstances the profile is attempting to be created before the charge is completed, that results in the error, which would be the intended result.

-Graham

What this says to me is that even those PayPal users who *did* appear to successfully sign up for the subscription actually did not. They get the first billing period, and then when the time comes for the recurring charge it will fail. This in fact just happened today with one of my early “invited guest” test subscribers. She got a PayPal notice of subscription cancellation and cannot today access the site.

It all points back to the order of profile creation and billing API used for the different paytypes if I am following PayPal’s explanations correctly.

I will post the next bit of the conversation separately. Thanks!

So I tried to clarify further with PayPal, sending them this:

1. So it sounds to me like I should use the Express Checkout API for PayPal-using customers to do the recurring billing for the subscriptions. Correct?
2. Can I also use the Express Checkout API to process credit card-using customers as well?

Thanks!

PayPal’s response:

Those are good questions.

You would use the Payflow Gateway Version of Express checkout to create a billing agreement (see chapter 2 of the guide: https://cms.paypal.com/cms_content/US/en_US/files/developer/PFP_ExpressCheckout_PP.pdf). Then you can create a profile off the BAID (Billing Agreement ID)that is generated through that process to create the recurring profile in Payflow.

You cannot use the Express Checkout to create profiles with a credit card, they would have to have a PayPal account.

-Graham

I’m hoping this will be more helpful for you guys than it is to me, but thought I should pass it on. I’m not getting from this that there is anything I need to do as far as *configuring* s2Member or PayPal goes. But I’m happy to try things if you have suggestions. Hopefully looking through the logs will be the ultimate answer.

Thanks!

Thanks for the login info, Chris, I got the email and forwarded it to Jason too. And thanks for the extra info from PayPal! :)

2. Can I also use the Express Checkout API to process credit card-using customers as well?

Express Checkout will always require the user to login to PayPal for subscriptions.

You would use the Payflow Gateway Version of Express checkout to create a billing agreement

s2Member doesn’t integrate with the PayFlow Gateway. It integrates with the PayPal Pro edition that uses PayFlow’s API, but it’s PayPal Pro.

It all points back to the order of profile creation and billing API used for the different paytypes if I am following PayPal’s explanations correctly.

As far as I know, s2Member uses the Express Checkout API when the user chooses Express Checkout in the pro-form to pay.

Could you confirm that you have Express Checkout enabled in your account?

Sent PCF

Mike, i don’t see your email, there may have been an error when you sent it… Could you send it again, please? Thanks!

Could you confirm that you have Express Checkout enabled in your account?

Yes, in PayPal Manager, under Service Summary, it lists Express Checkout with a Live status. Here is the full set of services:

Service/Status/Mode
PayPal Payments Pro/Live/–
Hosted Checkout Pages/Live/–
Payflow SDK/API (Full Access)/Live/–
Recurring Billing/Live/–
Paypal Express Checkout/Live/–

Thanks!

I will resend the PCF here in a little bit. Here’s my service detail:
Service Summary
Service Status Mode
PayPal Payments Pro Live —
Hosted Checkout Pages Live —
Payflow SDK/API (Full Access) Live —
Recurring Billing Live —
Paypal Express Checkout Live —

What do you mean with this statement?
As far as I know, s2Member uses the Express Checkout API when the user chooses Express Checkout in the pro-form to pay.

How does the user select the Express Checkout API? On ProForms there is no option. If the user selects PayPal they are directed to a page to log-in and complete the payment. On the ProForm they click the Paypal icon and then click Checkout With PayPal.

I don’t know if it means anything but I was working with PayPal Merchant Technical Services and Business Services and they said they need to turn on reference transactions on my account. It could take up to 48 hours. But I will try again then.

Sent PCF.
Thanks.

Also just found this link but PayPal is so confusing so I don’t know if it’ related to collecting subscription billing through PayPal payments (not credit cards).
https://www.x.com/developers/paypal/forums/website-payments-pro/why-paypal-getting-rid-api-connections-pro

• This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by  Mike Whitney.

Sent PCF.

This is weird. Again I didn’t receive it. For a moment I thought maybe the form stoped working, so I did a test, but I did receive the email immediately. When you sent your them, did you receive a confirmation email about them being received? Could you try another browser in case there’s a problem with the one you used?

Also just found this link but PayPal is so confusing so I don’t know if it’ related to collecting subscription billing through PayPal payments (not credit cards).

That seems to be talking about the confusion PayPal created with the different APIs in PayPal Pro, but I don’t think it’s related to the problem here. You guys are being able to receive payments via PayPal Pro, the problem is with Express Checkout, so I’m confused, because that’s done over at PayPal and I don’t know why you’d have a problem.

How does the user select the Express Checkout API? On ProForms there is no option. If the user selects PayPal they are directed to a page to log-in and complete the payment. On the ProForm they click the Paypal icon and then click Checkout With PayPal.

The PayPal option in the pro-form is the one for Express Checkout. I think it uses the API to send the info to PayPal, but maybe I’m wrong. In any case, it doesn’t have to do with the PayFlow API when it comes to Express Checkout, you can do Express Checkout without PayPal Pro. Pre Sale FAQs » To use s2Member® Pro Forms, will I have to use PayPal® Pro?

Hmm… that gives me an idea. Could you guys test with a pro-form that just has the Express Checkout option, without the cards? 1 cent live transaction is fine. See if that works, please.

Ok submitted PCF again with IE. I got the email confirmation back as well.

Here is a summary where I am at.
Currently using PayPal Pro with Payflow and do have recurring billing option.

Test results:
1) Recurring subscription with credit cards. Functions fine.
2) One Time Payment with credit cards. – Functions Fine.
3) One time payment with PayPal payment – Functions fine.
4) Recurring subscription with PayPal payment – Fails transaction.

Sent you a SS in the PCF as I do see one difference after logging in to PayPal to confirm the payment.
a) When you process a one-time payment after logging into PayPal you have the option of selecting your funding source. Like credit card or bank account.
b) When you process a recurring payment after logging in there is no option to select funding source.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by  Mike Whitney.

Very interesting response from PayPal today. After confirming that Express Checkout was live in my PayPal account, I decided to use my open channel with PayPal support to ask them to double check from their end that it was indeed setup correctly. Here is what I wrote to them:

My software vendor (s2Member) is telling me that it *does* use Express Checkout when the customer wants to pay with PayPal, and asked me to confirm that Express Checkout is indeed enabled on my account.

When I go to PayPal Manager, it says that Paypal Express Checkout has a Status of “Live” and a Mode of “–“. So does that confirm that it is enabled or is there somewhere where you guys or I should be checking other than my PayPal Manager Service Summary?

Since I’ve been having these issues, I would appreciate a verification on your side that Express Checkout really is enabled, just in case the UI is showing me one thing but the account is not fully configured to allow Express Checkout or something weird like that.

Thanks!

This is what PayPal support wrote back.

The Express Checkout will always be enabled for use, if you have a Payflow account with PayPal as the processor. The issue you are encountering would have to do with your shopping cart’s integration of the Payflow Express Checkout for the Recurring Billing.

If you go through and create a profile using a credit card, all you have to do is make a transaction and then refer to that transaction with the transaction ID, to create a profile. You cannot do that with an Express Checkout transaction ID. You have to create a Billing Agreement transaction which would generate a BAID (Billing Agreement ID) and that is used in place of the Transaction ID to create the profile.

I don’t think your cart is trying to do the implementation that way, and that is why they are having issues. If you can have them send in a copy of the string they are posting to PayPal I can take a look at it to see what it is that they are doing wrong.

-Graham

So when the user chooses Express Checkout, is s2Member creating this Billing Agreement transaction to acquire the BAID so that the profile may be created? Or is it trying to process the same path as credit card transactions where there is no Billing Agreement?

I suppose I could look through the code for clues, but would really appreciate it if someone more familiar with the code could do so and get me (us) a definitive answer. Maybe this is the root of the whole problem.

Speaking of which, *is* there anyone familiar with the code other than Jason or is it a one-developer show here at s2? Just curious.

Thanks!

Jason is the developer. Raam and I are familiar with the code to an extent, but there are details we don’t know yet. PayPal in particular has a lot of details about it that only Jason knows with certainty, since he worked out the integration.

I don’t know if a billing agreement is created or not, but I can say that s2Member does work with Express Checkout without a problem for most site owners, the integration is sound.

The PayPal support rep. talks about the PayFlow account and PayFlow Express Checkout, but s2Member doesn’t integrate with PayFlow Pro, and the Express Checkout integration is independent of PayPal Pro’s.

Did you test a pro-form with just PayPal as the billing option?

I tested with just Paypal enabled as the billing option and same result.

One time payments works great.
Recurring subscription fails.

I also just received this message in my email this morning so not sure if that is because of the recurring subscriptions failing or what? Like I said all the other transactions are working great, accounts are getting created, and everything is fine.

Please check your server that handles PayPal Instant Payment Notifications (IPN). IPNs sent to the following URL(s) are failing:

http://www.dividedsocial.com/?s2member_paypal_notify=1

I am not getting the IPN failing problem, just to disambiguate.

Ok I’m getting real tired of calling PayPal but here is the latest for my case. It seems like the left hand does not know what the right hand does with their programs. It’s very frustrating.

PayPal said they checked the logs of my failed transaction and that the log shows S2Member using the PayFlow API for the Express Checkout Recurring Payment. So according to them it’s not using the PayPal API for that transaction.

In order to do recurring PayPal payments through the PayFlow side I need reference transactions enabled on my account which they denied me at this point.

I am all set-up for recurring payments and Express Checkout so if we can use the PayPal API for the Express Checkout and PayFlow API for all non PayPal payments I should be all set. Is this possible? They also gave me this link for you. https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=developer/e_howto_api_ECRecurringPayments

If you read back through my posts everything is working except for PayPal payments with recurring billing. If I cannot get this to work I will move away from PayPal and use Authorize.net or something. PayPal is extremely frustrating. It would be nice though to allow users to log-in and fund payments with their Pay Pal account.

So going back through and parsing all this, I’ve come to the following conclusions on subscription billing.

1. s2Member is using the Payflow SDK for credit card transactions and this is working.
2. We think s2Member is using the standard Express Checkout APIs for PayPal transactions, and while there is no reason for this not to be working, it s not.
3. PayPal themselves say that integrating with the standard Express Checkout API is the best and easiest way to handle users wishing to pay with PayPal for recurring billing. This avoids the whole Billing Agreement dance.

Question
Is there a way to confirm #2 via the logs or in the code itself? I realize s2Member ‘Free Edition’ already does this, but I wonder if the Payflow SDK settings are taking the code down a different path as an unintended side effect.

Since Mike tried the PayPal-only ProForm and had it fail, I have not done so as I expect the same result. I am happy to try it as well if you still think it would give us some insight.

Thanks!